Leah Feiger: To be fair, a 2,500-person militia in the United States that is carefully organized on Telegram and promotes the use of armed weapons in response to anything from natural disasters to bogus claims of election fraud is still really worrying. I am concerned.
David Gilbert: Absolutely, and I think that’s the point that gets lost. When you write articles like this, a lot of people say, “Oh, you shouldn’t give these people a platform. They’re making this all up. They’re hoaxing.”
Leah Feiger: Definitely.
David Gilbert: But there are people in these Telegram groups who want to join armed militias, and this is part of a larger resurgence in right-wing paramilitary activity and discussions that I and other experts have been seeing online in recent weeks and months, and it’s really troubling.
Leah Feiger: We’re going to take a short break, and when we come back, we’ll talk about how all these different kinds of militias are starting to become mainstream again and what that means for 2024. Welcome back to WIRED Politics Lab. David, you were talking about how militias are re-emerging right now. What do you mean by that?
David Gilbert: What I mean is that Lange and the militia network he started are part of a broader movement that I, other journalists and researchers who have been tracking this sector, have seen in recent weeks, and all of this is tied to the 2024 election, people needing to be ready to respond if something happens and, of course, what happens if Donald Trump loses.
Leah Feiger: So then what does Lang say will happen if Donald Trump loses?
David Gilbert: Well, Lange talks about civil unrest, and says that if Trump loses, people will automatically be angry. Do you believe the result was correct that Joe Biden won the election?
Jake Lang: No, I think it’s a statistical exception or impossibility.
David Gilbert: When I spoke to him, he shared a list of the most talked about election conspiracies of 2020.
Jake Lang: Rigging, theft, manipulation, scam, whatever you want to call it. This was not the will of the people.
David Gilbert: As he looks ahead to 2024, he predicts that if Trump loses, there will be a big catastrophe and a lot of people will be angry, and that’s where his militia will be ready to step in.
Leah Feiger: Is that true? I mean, people say a lot of things online. What kind of connections are you and other researchers making between this moment in 2020?
David Gilbert: The network of people organizing this is very large and very strong because they’ve had four years to build these nationwide networks of connections and groups, whether it’s online or in person. We saw before 2020 that there were some researchers and some journalists who were raising flags, not very many, but they were raising flags and saying, “This is worrying.” The intelligence services were also noticing that this was happening, but nobody took any action. I think this time, we’re about five months away from the election, I think the signals are much stronger. In recent weeks, I’ve certainly seen a serious surge in people who are discussing things like militias, sheriff’s deputies, that people need to be prepared for 2024, the idea that something is going to happen on November 5 if the result isn’t what people think it is. So I think one of the similarities you see between 2020 and 2021 is that people ignored what was in front of them. In 2020, you can see why this happened because an event like January 6 has never happened before. So what is happening this time is much bigger, but at least this time people are not paying attention to it.
